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Topic 12        Mon Apr 22, 1991
J.COLLINS5 [GeojoeC]         (Forwarded)
Sub: 8 mhz processors for the CBM 8 bits!
 
I have been trying to get several Apple Hardware developers to support the
Commodore. Specifically for speed up! This is an editied exchange I had with
the online Rep for ZIP Technologies here on GEnie!
57 message(s) total.
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Category 2,  Topic 12
Message 35        Mon Jan 04, 1993
C.ISAACSON1 [Dadd]           at 23:35 EST
 
do you really think that you will ever come up with a 128 or 64 accellerator?
8s
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Category 2,  Topic 12
Message 36        Tue Jan 05, 1993
C128.JBEE                    at 10:56 EST
 
 I am 100% certain on the C-64 and almost sure on the C-128.
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Category 2,  Topic 12
Message 37        Wed Jan 06, 1993
F.OGLE [Color 64 BBS]        at 18:29 EST
 
   Folks at the local CUGs here are screaming, Jbee - They want to know what
is up with the accelerators!
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Category 2,  Topic 12
Message 38        Thu Jan 07, 1993
C128.JBEE                    at 00:14 EST
 
 I am going ahead with them :X  Once I have something concrete to post I
 will, which will probably be before the end of the month.  As a few of
 the "insiders" know I haven't exactly been sitting still, things just
 take time and I don't want to post details unless they are concrete.
 
 Though I guarantee once I do people will be pleased :)
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Category 2,  Topic 12
Message 39        Thu Jan 07, 1993
CBM-MARK                     at 22:38 EST
 
 Does anybody know if JBEE *ever* 'sits still'?  :D
 
 We'll all be patiently (or otherwise :) waiting for you to release the
 latest info when you have it!
 
                ~~Mark~~
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Category 2,  Topic 12
Message 40        Fri Jan 15, 1993
B.ENNIS1 [Torby]             at 02:47 EST
 
ThThe president of my local user group sent in his $50 on this accellerator. I
can't say that he has been optimistic about ever seeing anything come out of
it.  Is there anything I can tell him that is of any good?
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Category 2,  Topic 12
Message 41        Fri Jan 15, 1993
C128.JBEE                    at 13:49 EST
 
 Not until the end of the month.
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Category 2,  Topic 12
Message 42        Thu Jan 28, 1993
C128.JBEE                    at 19:31 EST
 
 Bil Herd a former Commodore engineer has agreed to help me produce the
 speed-up board for the C-128.  Actually, Bil is the one that helped
 design both the C-128 and REUs (sys 32800,123,45,6).  I expect to have
 him here shortly under the CBM-PRESS account.
 
 I will also have a few other experts helping out on the project, some
 which are already online ;)
 
 Once we have everything planned out and the directions set for the
 design goals I will post more here and have a RTC.
 
 I would say at this point it is a go :)
 
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Category 2,  Topic 12
Message 43        Thu Jan 28, 1993
F.OGLE [Color 64 BBS]        at 19:49 EST
 
   John, that's great news - I hope all goes well!
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Category 2,  Topic 12
Message 44        Thu Jan 28, 1993
CBM-MARK                     at 22:54 EST
 
 Hurray!  Sounds like it's one step closer to completion, JBEE.  Good Luck!
 
 Hope I don't have to work when you have the RTC :(
 
               ~~Mark~~
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Category 2,  Topic 12
Message 45        Fri Jan 29, 1993
C128.JBEE                    at 01:56 EST
 
 I hope not either :)
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Category 2,  Topic 12
Message 46        Fri Jan 29, 1993
HOWIE-CBM                    at 02:13 EST
 
 This is good news!!!
 
 Now, if we can also persuade Bil to relate a bit of Commodore lore
 while he is up and about, we are all in for a huge treat.  And, it is
 not all that difficult to persuade Bil.  :)
 
 But I guess we should also let him have a spare moment or two so
 that he can do a bit of design too.
 
 Howie
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Category 2,  Topic 12
Message 47        Tue Feb 02, 1993
M.LESLIE5 [Warp Sled]        at 01:01 EST
 
That's great news!  Just let me know when to get in line for it!
 
                                  :)
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Category 2,  Topic 12
Message 48        Tue Feb 02, 1993
C.OGLE2 [breadstick]         at 05:56 EST
 
 Say, JeBEE, if the outlook on the ZIP CHIP looks okay at this point, are you
still wanting people to send in deposits?  Or are you going to wait and see
how  the pworojusect goes first?
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Category 2,  Topic 12
Message 49        Tue Feb 02, 1993
C128.JBEE                    at 21:17 EST
 
 I don't want any more deposits or survey sheets and have been returning
 the few stray deposits that have arrived (except for one from Sweden because
 I know the guy had to go to a lot of trouble to send it).
 
 I am going to delete the "zip" survey I uploaded in a few minutes.
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Category 2,  Topic 12
Message 50        Tue Feb 02, 1993
D.WITMER2 [Snogpitch]        at 23:34 EST
 
Looks like I've gotten into this topic a little bit late.  Is there a way to
get on a waiting list, since at this point deposits are no longer  being
accepted?
 
I've got a technical question of sorts.  How does the speed up affect such
programs as telecommunication programs that involve timing to work, such as
for up/downloading, etc?  Seems to me there could be a potential  problem
using existing programs.  Several of the local Commodore boards have been
discussing this with who knows what facts they have to back them  up, and I'm
dying to find out how much software would be instantly  compatible with the
zip.
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Category 2,  Topic 12
Message 51        Wed Feb 03, 1993
C128.JBEE                    at 04:00 EST
 
 There is no waiting list.
 
 Anything that uses the 1mhz bus and CIAs for timing will be okay, software
 that uses ML loops for timing will run too fast?  Since my tests with
 Dialogue 128 downloading at 9600 were 95%+ eff on the GEnie 9600 WATS
 line I do not see where the board will speed up or improve any telecom
 session worth mentioning or to justify purchasing the cartridge.
 
 Where it will make a big improvement is in programs with a lot of processor
 overhead like graphic applications (Basic 8) and things like ARC.  Word
 processors will run a lot faster too since the VDC can accept data far
 faster than the 8502 can deliver it.
 
 The most exciting thing (for me) will be the ability to run applications
 in compiled languages such as C as fast as ML applications run now.  That
 will open up the possibility of a lot of new software easily ported
 from other machines.
 
 Of course things like Geos will fly :)
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Category 2,  Topic 12
Message 52        Wed Feb 03, 1993
CBM-ED [e.g.bell]            at 09:50 EST
 
Uh Oh!
 
 JB>  Anything that uses the 1mhz bus and CIAs for timing will be
 JB> okay, software  that uses ML loops for timing will run too
 JB> fast?  Since my tests with  Dialogue 128 downloading at 9600
 JB> were 95%+ eff on the GEnie 9600 WATS  line I do not see
 JB> where the board will speed up or improve any telecom
 
I know I use the jiffy timers at 160-162 for timing loops in BellTerm and
RTCMaster, including/especially for transfers.  Or will that be left at the
60/second rate too?  Currently that set of addresses is  updated by the system
IRQ.  But if the IRQ is significantly changed wrt timing, will it cause other
stuff to have problems.  I am not asking like I know the answer.... I don't...
just curious.
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Category 2,  Topic 12
Message 53        Wed Feb 03, 1993
C128.JBEE                    at 16:31 EST
 
 I won't know either until we have a working prototype :)
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Category 2,  Topic 12
Message 54        Wed Feb 03, 1993
R.KNOP1 [Rob Knop]           at 21:54 EST
 
The normal system IRQ is triggered by the screen raster, rather than by
counting a certain number of system clock cycles.  Since the screen refresh
rate can't be changed by the ZIP board (or else all of our monitors will no
longer be good enough :), I would imagine that the IRQ's will still come at 1
per 60 seconds.  Which means you can get a lot more done between interrupts,
and a lot more done in an IRQ routine :).
 
Since the jiffy clock is updated by the IRQ routine, if my imagination that
IRQ's will still come at 1/60 seconds is correct, then software that uses the
ZP jiffy clock for timing will still probably work just fine.
 
By a similar token, terminal programs should still work fine.  When a byte
comes in on the RS232 port, it triggers a NMI, and the actual byte receiving
is done in that NMI.  Thus, the rate that byte triggers come in should not be
affected by the processor speed.  And, assuming a well written terminal
program, which makes sure it isn't overfilling the buffer, there shouldn't be
any problem with sending bytes, either.  (How does George Hug deal with
timing?)
 
Again, the terminal program will have many more clock cycles to process each
byte that comes in... visualize some pretty impessive online decompression.
Realtime GIF viewing, anybody? :D
 
-Rob
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Category 2,  Topic 12
Message 55        Thu Feb 04, 1993
CBM-ED [e.g.bell]            at 03:14 EST
 
Rob:  I know the 128 IRQ is tied to the raster interrupt, but I don't think
the one in the C64 is done that way.  As for normal RS232 i/o you are probably
on the money.  I'm talking about file transfer  protoocols where an event is
timed.... i.e. waiting for the SOH byte in all of the Xmodem derivative
protocols (Xmodem CRC/Checksum/1K/  Ymodem).  If the update rate of the
addresses 160-162 are changed that is going to affect any of these protocols.
George hug uses a countdown timer with a different calibration from the
standard  resident routines.  That is not the whole picture, but again, my
concern was never with the garden variety i/o, which is little more than a
glorified file-handling function (my opinion) and should  respond well to the
speed-up.  I was just concerned about things that used the Jiffy timer.  If
the interrupts are controlled at 60 per second this is probably all moot and
as you say, there will be lots more time to do things between the interrupts.
 
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Category 2,  Topic 12
Message 56        Tue Feb 09, 1993
C128.JBEE                    at 20:37 EST
 
 Speed-up board update:
 Dennis Jarvis, the author of Basic 7.0 Internals by Abacus, an expert
 on both the DOS and OS for the Commodores, who also worked on the
 Turbo Master, will also be working on the new speed-up board.  Dennis
 will be our debugger and will be the one modifying the operating system
 as needed and offering his expert advice.
 
 A good customer who is an EE and also runs his own consulting business
 will be doing the board work (soldering, chip insertion, etc).
 
 So we have the team, we just have to rough out the plan :)
 
 Any suggestions for the name for the new board would be appreciated.
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Category 2,  Topic 12
Message 57        Wed Feb 10, 1993
HOWIE-CBM                    at 05:48 EST
 
 JBEE,
 
 A name?
 
 That's easy...
 
 We already have a BVUNZIP.
 
 So why not a JBEE Board?   :)
 
 Howie
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REPly ?
